The Business Meeting

As the Pastor Search Committee we prepared for the business meeting on the Wednesday before the vote, we decided to involve the entire committee in our report to the church. I asked each of the committee to share the moment that they became convinced that God was calling Brother Rick to be the next pastor at Lakeview. We also discussed a bit about Brother James. He had announced that he would not serve as moderator of the business meeting because he wanted to address the committee directly during the meeting. We tried to anticipate some of the objections that he might have and discussed how to respond.

On Wednesday evening we met beforehand, prayed, and then began the business meeting. I’m very glad that the entire committee spoke. It took a while (around 40 minutes) for each of us to share for a few minutes, but it really helped the church to see the candidate from our perspective. Plus it confirmed our decision to take a unanimous recommendation to the church. This was the only time that the entire committee had an opportunity to address the church. We made sure that none of us told the same story and several people told me during the following days that they appreciated hearing from the rest of the committee (besides just from me!)
The committee did a great job. The only statement that made me wince was when one of the committee members compared the previous pastor to the new candidate very unfavorably. No malice was intended, but our previous pastor was loved and supported by many in the church. Following our opening statement (motion) the questions began.

As committee chair, I addressed most of the questions. From time to time, my colleagues on the committee would step in and answer or clarify some issue. Some my answers were lousy, quite frankly, and many of them were only satisfactory. But the committee stepped in from time to time and handled things well. Here were the major topics that the church asked about:

The first person to ask a question, really didn’t ask one at all. Mr. Farmer, long time teacher of one of the senior adult Sunday School classes simply offered his thanks to us and said “Ya’ll have done a really good job for this church. We think that he’s gonna work just fine.” Farmer’s support right off the bat was encouraging for us all. We were still concerned about the senior adults, but for one of their primary spokesmen to share that certainly set the tone for the rest of the conversation.

Next Mr. James slowly walked up to the microphone and expressed his primary concern. He said that the candidate had shared in his testimony that he laid our fleeces to help him decide if God was calling him to be our pastor. Such an approach demonstrated (to Mr. James) a clear example of spiritual immaturity. In addition, the candidate didn’t cite any scripture that he used to make his decision. These oversights, according to Brother James’ were glaring. How could we expect that he was spiritually mature enough for this position?

My first response was that he spoke with the committee in great detail about his calling to ministry and how he felt God leading him to Lakeview. I had no response to the fleece comment, but essentially said that while we did have some questions throughout the process for him, a lack of spiritual maturity was never an area of concern. Almost all of our concerns were how the church would receive him, not about any lack of ability on his part.


Brother James then sat down and after a brief pause, the questions continued. We shared with the church many of the theological questions we asked (and provided a complete list for anyone who wanted one). I wanted to provide a list because I didn’t want to go through all of the questions and have people interrupt to ask “How did he answer that one?”

After the questions ended, we then presented the financial and benefits package to the church.
Before we presented it, I spent several minutes explaining how pastor’s salaries differed from those of normal ;) people. I then took questions before passing out the amount. Unexpectedly, several in the church felt that the package wasn’t generous enough and that we should increase it! So I was in the contorted position of saying that it was deemed enough by the three committees, even though as chair of the PSC committee I had pushed for a higher salary. And certainly to Brother James' credit he did add "This is only a motion. We can certainly amend it." We did make a point to say that it was a joint recommendation from three committees and that we could revisit it in next year’s budgeting process. Others wanted to know what the candidate’s current salary was (at his home church) to try to decide if we were offering a competitive amount. Although we had that information, we didn’t feel it was relevant to the discussion. But no one, not a single person, thought the package amount was too high. (Clearly a sign that it was too low!)

The meeting took a draining two and a half hours and was pretty stressful. But overall, the committee felt very encouraged by the church’s response. Now everything was done except for the voting on the following Sunday.

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Setting a Pastor's Salary

The salary for the position was negotiated among the Pastoral Search, Stewardship, and Personnel Committees and reflected all of the strengths and weaknesses of a multi-committee approach. Practically, the PSC advocated for a highest salary while the Stewardship committee advocated for a more affordable (from the church's perspective) amount. We knew that the amount of the salary would be quite a bit less than our previous pastor's package. This reduction was necessary for a couple of reasons. First, as I've noted, the experience level of the candidate was substantially less than our previous pastor. Our candidate had two years of experience verses the four decades of pastoral experience that his predecessor had. Second, the size of our church had contracted substantially. We averaged around 450 in attendance when our previous pastor was called compared to around 200 today.

So I sat down with the chairs of the two other committees. The Personal Committee chair was on the Pastor Search Committee, and the Stewardship Chair was Brother James. After an extended conversation, we settled on a salary that we felt we could take before the church. We based a good deal of our decision based on the salary range that the Kentucky Baptist Convention had developed. It’s gone now, but a similar comparison is located at the Lifeway website. There’s still an outstanding site on all these issues located at the Kentucky Baptist Convention.

(I’m intentionally leaving out the candidate from this discussion. When we raised a general salary figure for him he said “I trust that the church will be fair and compensate me at a level where I can support my family in your community.” Words that every PSC chairman hates to hear!)

So as a PSC, we then recognized that the challenge would be in educating the congregation about the strange beast that is the pastor's salary.

Most workers pay only ½ of their social security taxes with their employers paying the other half. But because pastors are self employed, they have to pay both sides of their Social Security taxes. In addition, when employees of a company pay for their own health insurance they are subsidized in part by their employer. That's why when you leave your job but must maintain your insurance, your COBRA payments are so substantial. For the first time you are paying for this insurance unsubsidized by your employer.

So when we presented the package it to the church, the first number we emphasized was the salary

Salary $XX,XXX

+ social security taxes *
+ a portion of insurance **
+ matching a portion of retirement benefits ***
+ car allowance (mileage)


Total Package: $XX,XXX


*We emphasized that the candidate was responsible for paying his taxes.

**We didn't feel it was wise to commit to paying for all of his health insurance, because the insurance rate continues to rise.

***We wanted to encourage him to set aside a portion for retirement, so as a church, we committed to match his funds up to a specified percentage of his salary.


So by listing salary first, instead of package, we tried to emphasize to the church that they should focus on the salary total, not the package total.

We also specified time for conducting revivals, for taking vacations, time for conference travel. We gave him flexibility in these, but require him to take 2 weeks of vacation a year. (So for example, he could take more than 2 weeks vacation, but have one less week of revival for the year.)

Some thoughts on pastoral compensation:

1. Get comparative numbers based on churches the same size. Use associational resources to help you with this. It also helps for the associational missionary to come in and discuss compensation with the appropriate committee.
2. Have a couple of committees put the package together. The more people you have invested in the process, the more voices you will have to explain the result when it comes up for a vote.
3. Commit to revisit the package every year. Some salaries are set when a pastor first arrives and then never get revisited. Then things continue until either he must bring it up, or he leaves because he could no longer afford to stay. The Personnel committee should examine the compensation of all church ministers every year.


Other thoughts??

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In View of A Call

We had a busy few days when brother Rick came in view of a call. (The phrase "In view of a call" simply means the Sunday when a pastoral candidate meets the church).

Thursday evening: Dinner Fellowship with Deacons

I was not in attendance for this meeting. But from what I later learned, the meal went well. After a meal, the deacons began asking him numerous questions, most of them surrounding his views towards the deacons. Brother James asked him a couple of questions about his philosophy of ministry. It was an auspicious beginning to the weekend.

Friday morning: Breakfast with Ministerial staff and wives
This was the only meeting scheduled where there would not be any Pastor Search Committee members present. I had great confidence that the candidate and the two other ministers who were on staff would have a productive meeting. I didn’t see any need to have the PSC represented and thought that they might talk a little more freely in our absence.

Saturday morning: Candidate and Wife at Ladies Brunch
Probably the topic that engendered the most impassioned discussion was the candidates role in the Ladies Brunch. We already had a guest speaker for the event (our interim pastor’s wife) and didn’t want to steal any of her limelight. But we did want to invite the candidate’s wife to come and eat with the ladies. As a part of this luncheon, the men of the church were going to serve the ladies and bus tables.

Much committee debate surrounded whether or not we wanted the candidate to be seen for the first time, clearing plates off tables. To his credit, Brother Rick thought that would be a perfect setting to meet the people. But the committee decided (against my preference) to have him stay in the kitchen and work there. Which he graciously did.

Saturday evening: Fellowship with the Pastoral Search Committee This was a nice event that included our spouses who got to meet the candidate for the first time. Much fellowship and we spent a lot of time recounting the search process for our spouses, unfettered by our self-imposed gag order.

Sunday morning: Senior Adult Breakfast

This was the event about which we had the most concern. Due to Rick’s age, we anticipated the most friction from the senior adults. Consequently we thought it would be a good idea for Rick to attend this meeting. And they fell in love with him immediately. I had given him a church directory during an earlier visit and he had memorized the names of almost every active adult in the church. They were stunned at his ability to remember their names. (The committee was also stunned). By eating with them, sharing coffee and just loving on them, he made a real impact. He then shared a few appropriate words to the gathered group and they enjoyed it tremendously.
Initially, a couple of committee members and myself hovered around a bit anxiously. After we observed him for a few minutes, as he laughed and chatted with the Senior Adults, one committee member tugged on my arm and said “C’mon Taran, let’s leave and let him do his thing.”

Morning worship: The morning worship service went exceptionally well. Right before the sermon, I briefly introduced the candidate and his wife. He then preached and it was the best sermon our committee had heard from him. Once again he rose to the occasion and God used his words to encourage and to convict.

Following the service we scheduled a lunch with the staff. Although I was not present, the personnel chairman (and PSC member) was. We had hoped that the staff would use it as an opportunity to talk with Brother Rick about his philosophy of ministry, his approach to working with staff, and some of their concerns from the previous week.

But no one said anything. Finally, the Personnel Chairman stood and asked: “Don’t any of you have any questions for the guy who could potentially be your supervisor?” Still no one said anything. Finally, one of the secretaries asked him “What do you expect out of the church secretaries?” He answered that question, but then added “Let’s talk about the elephant that’s in the room that no one wants to talk about. I heard that there was some question of whether or not I’m bringing in my own staff. First of all, I’m the only paid staff member at my current church. And second of all, I’ve heard about the job that you are doing and I’ve heard of no reason to come in and make changes. See? We’ve now discussed that elephant in the room and it’s no longer here!” And things relaxed from that point forward.

Sunday Evening: For the PM service he shared his testimony for a few minutes, then took questions for about 45 minutes. The questions were rarely theological (although Calvinism came up) and were focused more on pastoral issues. I’ll never forget the first question. One of the senior adults stood up and tentatively asked the question “Do you love the old people and will you bury us when we die?”

I didn’t get a sense that there were any trap questions and the only question he answered poorly was one he misunderstood. After the service his wife brought it to his attention and he found the questioner, apologized, and addressed her question directly.

Surprisingly to me, Brother James didn’t ask any questions.

Following the service, the PSC sat down with him and we were down-right giddy. Everything had gone exceptionally well and we were hearing from all reports that everyone loved him. He shared that the day had gone well and that he had experienced an encouraging day of worship.I met with he and his family on Monday morning before they headed back home. I wanted to see if he had any concerns that he wanted to address directly to me. There were none. All in all the weekend exceeded immeasurably beyond all I could ask for or even imagine. God is good.

One last major task awaited us before the vote the following Sunday. Our bylaws stipulate that the PSC must bring a candidate’s name in a formal nomination to the church a motion at a business meeting the Wednesday before the vote. It gives an opportunity for the church to directly ask us questions about the candidate in a public setting.

So we began to gear up for Wednesday, the evening that for me was the most stressful of the entire process.

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Preparing for the Candidate's First Sunday

One of the tremendous benefits our search committee had was the skill set provided by the individual members. For example, we had the personnel chairman as well as a former staff member who could talk with the staff about their concerns. Throughout the week in between our announcement and the candidate’s arrival, we spent a great deal of time communicating with the staff about their concerns.

The personnel chairman spoke with the secretaries and attempted to placate their worries. He assured them that the candidate had no plans to remove them from their jobs. I sat down with the director of the pre-K program and reiterated to her that there was no package deal with the pastor for his wife to come in and run the children’s programs.

In the meantime, throughout this week, Brother James began calling other people on PSC to ask more detailed questions about the search process. He was never inappropriate or combative, but it was clear that he was staking out a position in opposition to the candidate. My only aggravation in his position was that he had not actually met the candidate.

When the Pastor Search Committee met that Wednesday night, we made sure that everyone was up to speed on all these ongoing discussions. I shared with them that they should be completely transparent in talking with the church about the candidate. It was an odd experience of whiplash to go from keeping everything in confidence to sharing every element of the search process with the church.

We also put the finishing touches on the candidates visit. His busy itinerary looked like this:


Thursday afternoon: Arrival

Thursday evening: Dinner Fellowship with Deacons

Friday morning: Breakfast with Ministerial staff and wives

Friday afternoon: Look at area neighborhoods with a realtor

Friday evening: Free time

Saturday morning: Candidate and Wife at Ladies Brunch

Saturday evening: Fellowship with the Pastoral Search Committee

Sunday morning: Senior Adult Breakfast
Meet with PSC and deacons to pray for service

Sunday afternoon: Lunch with entire staff and spouses

Sunday PM: Testimony and Question and Answer time; Ice Cream Social
Last Meeting with Pastor Search Committee

Monday morning: Exit Breakfast With Pastor Search Chairman


It was a rigorous schedule, but a good one. (Another friend in the ministry said it “Looks like the Bataan Death March). But our feeling was that the church would benefit greatly from spending as much time as possible with the candidate. We worked around three events that serendipitously happened to be scheduled that weekend already (the Ladies Brunch, the PSC fellowship, and the Senior Adult Breakfast).

A lot would be riding on that visit.

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Phone Calls and Firefighting

Before the phone calls, some background.

Our committee, at my suggestion, made a decision early on in the process not to give the staff any more information that we gave to the church. The primary reason for this is that the church staff (primarily the secretarial staff) had taken on responsibilities beyond their job descriptions. (I touched on some of this here). For reasons that it would take too long to describe, it became in the interest of the pastor to delegate a lot of decisions to the secretarial staff. I was concerned that there would be a clash between the new pastor and the secretarial staff if this issue was not addressed.

As a result, from time to time throughout the process I heard some carping (through intermediaries) from the staff about being left out of the loop of the search process. Because we were fulfilling the requirements of the by-laws (to report to the church periodically), I saw no need to inform the staff at additional times. So I had no communication with the staff about the search process.

Which turned out to be a poor decision on my part.

Nature, and Southern Baptist congregations during a search for a new pastor, each abhor vacuums. As a result, the staff was primed to feel threatened and to latch on to any wild rumor that might be circulating through the church at any given moment. Because of these rumors, the secretarial staff was as combustible as dry kindling.

Two situations served as the sparks which ignited that Monday morning. The first spark began to catch fire on Sunday evening. In the video of our candidate that we showed to the congregation, he made mention that his wife ran the church’s pre-kindergarten program. Sitting in the congregation were two individuals, the lady who runs Lakeview’s Pre-K program and her mom who attend our church as well. So the initial thought that ran through their respective minds was “The new pastor’s wife is going to come in here to do my job and I (or my daughter) is going to be fired.” Because of the video, the children’s Pre-K program director was highly worried about her job. And no, it never crossed my mind that she would react this way, again a case of extreme short sightedness on my part.

(Note: Brother Rick’s wife is exceptionally gifted in the area of children’s ministry, and we discussed with him in detail the fact that the pastor search committee is only charged with calling a pastor, not with calling a children’s minister as well. Had he insisted on a package deal, we would’ve had to go back to the church and discuss it with the congregation or moved onto another candidate.)

Phone call number two was from one of our Pastor Search committee members who brought this issue to my attention.

The other spark that flashed on Monday morning was struck by one of our senior adults. As I’ve mentioned previously, we gave the senior adults some special updates every other Sunday in their Sunday school classes because they had little representation on the search committee. We wanted the senior adults to feel included in the process, but essentially just restated what we had already shared with the rest of the congregation.

One of the members of the class often came into the church offices on Monday mornings to count the offering from the previous day. Apparently, while they were counting, some of the staff would ask her about their most recent report to the Senior Adult class. For whatever reason, the information she shared with the staff was almost always wrong.

For example, one Sunday morning we shared with the group that we would be conducting credit checks on the candidates. Somehow that was misunderstood and explained to the staff as “the search committee has decided that they won’t call anyone who is in debt to be our pastor.” It was a bit humorous.

But the day after we presented the video of the candidate, this same lady came in to help count the offering. And for whatever reason, shortly after she arrived, she announced to the staff that “The new pastor is going to come in here and bring in his own staff. All of you are going to lose your jobs.”

Now obviously this was wrong…primarily because the pastoral candidate was the entire staff at his small church. So technically I guess she was right. But there were no plans for any terminations on his arrival.

So phone call number three was to inform me that the entire staff was fearful of their jobs. So our job as committee members that week shifted to firefighters. We had to start putting out these three fires.

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Politics

Courtesy of Derek Webb, this pretty much summarizes my view of the current election cycle. It's called "Savior on Capitol Hill." My favorite line "You can always trust the Devil or a politician, to be the Devil or a politician..." Enjoy!

Phone Call #1

When I arrived at work the next morning, I had an email from Brother James. Brother James, as you won’t recall (because I hadn’t given him a name yet) was the deacon who disagreed vocally with the idea of getting an intentional interim pastor for the church due to a check in his spirit, and then later asked me if he could nominate me for the pastor search committee. He also is chair of the Stewardship committee and had been the chair of the previous pastor search committee thirteen years ago. The previous pastor declared him to be the man who knows the pulse of the church more than anyone else.

James’ email asked me to call him and talk with him about the candidate for pastor. I called him immediately and we had a 45 minute discussion. He asked me to fill him in on how the committee came to believe that this man was the one for Lakeview Baptist. I took him through the process and explained in detail the way we reached this conclusion. As I mentioned previously, many of our procedures were ones that he had put in place for the previous committee several years beforehand. He listened carefully and asked several questions for clarification. I shared all the information I could. Several of his questions related to the fact that he was uncomfortable with the fact that the candidate had only pastored for two years. I think a part of his concern was also the fact that the process had “only” taken ten months or so. Thirteen years before, when we searched for a pastor, the process lasted closer to two years.

Then he asked me the question that I believe was really at the heart of his phone call. “Taran, why do you think the Lord would lead a man to us with so little experience?” I again repeated my thoughts on his experience and also reminded James that we were not the same church we were when we called our previous pastor. At that time we were running 450+ and now we were hovering between 150 and 200.

He thanked me for the time, but as I hung up, I had a sense of disappointment. I wondered what would happen if he began to express his reservations to others.

And then later that afternoon, I received another phone call.

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The Encore Effect: A Review

I have a few criteria on a good book for self help books. I like them to be short, and they need to have a few helpful tips on productivity. So I looked forward to reading Mark Sanborn's work The Encore Effect: How to Achieve Remarkable Performance in Anything You Do .

According to Sanborn, everyone wants to make a difference in the world, but most have no idea how to maximize their impact. In The Encore Effect, best-selling author and leadership expert Sanborn purports to provide the answer. He leads readers in six practices that will move them beyond excellence to distinction and from mundane to memorable. These principles guide readers to draw on their passion and devote themselves to preparation, practice, presentation, polishing, and finally, avoiding pitfalls. When readers follow these principles they will find that people are attracted to them. More importantly, they'll find that they now have an influence over others that can impact lives for eternity.

The "Encore" in the title of the book refers to the idea that you will do such a great job in your work that you will be asked by your coworkers/bosses/friends to keep doing it. The image is one of a performance. I do like the idea that when we work on something, we are performing. I don't think it should sound artificial and fake that I describe my teaching or preaching, as a performance.

Essentially, he takes common sense for increasing performance and packages it in an attractive hardcover book. But do we really need another book the spends time repackaging the common sense items that most people already know. You could summarize much of what he says in an aphorism or two "Practice makes perfect", etc.

One other concern is that the copy I received has special additions that make it more useful to Christians. It comes with verses and thoughtful Christian questions and verse quotations that are meant to probe the material from a Christian perspective. But I usually feel a bit queasy when target marketed. If the Christian material was integral to the book, then Sanborn should've included it in the generally released copy. If not, then it should've been omitted. I'm not fond of books that are printed one way for Christians and another way for everyone else.

Not a big fan of the book. (I have no extra copies, but after that review would you want one??)

The Announcement

Following the committee's vote to extend a call to brother Rick as pastor, we met again to discuss how to inform the church of our decision. Throughout the process, our committee did an excellent job of keeping our deliberations a secret. This was very important to me for two reasons. First, it insulated the church from the typical ups and downs of the search process. I didn’t want the whole church to be deflated if we ever got close to a candidate we really liked and then the process broke down. Second, and even more importantly, we also wanted to protect the ministries of the candidates we considered. Few things are more demoralizing to a congregation than the knowledge that their beloved pastor is deep in conversation with another church.

There was so much excitement among the committee members, however, that a few confessed to me that they had told their spouses and so we wanted to move quickly to bring the process to a conclusion. But our church by-laws require a two week process. We were supposed to announce the candidate on one Sunday, then have him come in to preach on the following Sunday, then we would vote on him the third Sunday morning. We decided that we would start the process by announcing our decision as soon as possible: the following Sunday.

We puzzled a little bit on how to introduce his name to the church. We wanted to prepare the church for his arrival in a positive way. Fortunately, he had been the subject of a state convention DVD connected with our state offering and we had a copy of the video. In order to get the age issue out on the table, we wanted to show the video to the entire church. Again, the new pastor was 30 years old, a good three decades younger than his predecessor. Letting the church see his youthful visage on video would be a good way of preparing them for his personal arrival the following week.

We made plans for the entire committee to be there on Sunday morning. I then asked to speak to the church at the end of the service, like we had on previous occasions. Unlike previous reports to the church, with this report, the entire committee went up behind the pulpit and stood behind me as I shared with them the process by which we had reached our decision. One other individual on the committee shared about the candidate's ministry experience, and another committee member shared a bit about his family.

Then I asked the church (rather dramatically) if they would like to see the man whom we believed God was calling to pastor our church. I'm not sure what I expected their response to be, but they looked around uncomfortably. I immediately signaled the sound booth to start the DVD. Which they did…but it was cued to the incorrect track and showed the wrong guy. Then I had to announce to the church “Uhhhh. That’s not him.” to the confusion of all.

Following the correct video, the congregation stood and applauded. I had worked it out with the Chairman of the Deacons to come up and remind the church about the by-laws and the proper procedure for voting and extending a call. As he arrived at the microphone he said "I'm sure that we will have a positive vote and that 98% of the church will be on board. I would say 100%, but even Jesus had to deal with a Judas." (!)

After the service, many people came up to us and shared their excitement about the candidate. The announcement went off well.

So it came as some surprise to me then, the next morning, when all Hades broke loose…

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Velociraptor and Bunkbeds

Although I generally loathe all things viral (both physically and uhhhh internetedly), for some reason this amused me. If I were in the market for new furniture, I would definitely consider BunkbedsPedia for all things bunkbed related).

I could survive for 1 minute, 9 seconds chained to a bunk bed with a velociraptor

The Road to Lost Innocence: A Review

There is a depth of moral depravity that I have been blessed not to experience.

There are things going on in my community, my nation, and my world that would devastate me if I only knew of them. Most of the time, I live in a hermetically sealed environment that is of a completely different world from the rest of the planet. From time to time a newspaper report or a personal experience may pick up the rock of society so that I catch of the glimpse of the seething, disgusting filth that lives underneath it.

One such recent experience accompanied my reading of a recent book The Road to Lost Innocence by Somaly Mam. Mam was born in Cambodia and orphaned at an early age. She grew up never knowing her real name or birthday. As a teenager, Somaly Mam was sold into prostitution and spent years in the brothels of Cambodia where she witnessed and experienced the full-blown horrors of the human sex trade – rape, torture, and nearly unfathomable abuse. It is almost impossible to believe some of the stories she tells about the lives of the girls in these brothels. In Cambodia, it is a societal belief that having sex with virgins protects the male against the AIDS virus and can even extend the lives of men. As a result, little girls are sold into the sex trade by their families. And by little girls I mean 6, 7, and 8 year olds.

The disregard for human life is unfathomable. On one occasion Mam witnessed a police officer who was also a client in the brothel pull out a gun and shoot one of the young girls because she was fighting him. The woman running the brothel simply cleaned up the remains and threw them into the city dump. Then she used the experience to warn the other girls to be compliant with the customers.

Eventually, through her interactions with some foreign aid workers (first as a prostitute, then by marrying one) Mam managed to escape this dreadful life and move to France. But her experiences refused to let her stay away and she has moved back to try to help others escape from this awful life. The book, The Road of Lost Innocence" is Mam’s newest means of advocacy.

This is a Christian book, thought Jesus is never mentioned and Mam never makes any kind of a religious statement. She mentions on one occasion that she is still not sure that she understands the concept of love, perhaps because she has experienced so little of it in her life.

I call this a Christian book because it depicts in precise details a world in which sin reigns and people are used as objects rather than as creatures made in the image of God. The wages of sin are certainly death and this book reminds me that for many, the death Paul talks about starts in this life. The world in which Mam lives is the world that so desperately needs to be saved.

Unfortunately I have no copies of the book, but I absolutely recommend it. It is powerful.

In which I take an unprovoked shot at my brother…

who as we speak can’t defend himself because he’s sitting in the dark in Houston


Last night on the trampoline:

Scooter: "Daddy? What purpose do mosquitoes serve? Why are they here?"

Me: "Scooter, I’m sure mosquitoes serve some purpose in God’s creation, but their reason for existence completely eludes me…sort of like your Uncle Bartolo."


Scooter:"Daddy! If Uncle Bartolo heard you say that he'd cry."

More on Credit Checks

Because of Bowden McElroy's generous comments over at SBCImpact.net, we have some first time visitors here. Welcome.

Ron asked some great questions that I wanted to spend a little more time addressing. First, let me say that I greatly value your thoughts on the matter. But even more I value your service as a pastor. As you are well aware, there is not more difficult job on the planet. One of my long term hopes is that other search committees may stumble across this blog and benefit from our own experiences (both positive and negative). A few pastors comment on here from time to time and I hope that syou will continue to do the same.

I’ll post his Ron's comment below and then respond.

As a pastor who has had a horrible personal financial experience in part due to a church not being able to pay me my full salary...I find it amazing that you have said in earlier post that the finances of the church were "dire" and yet you want a pastor whose is not...funny a boatload of you got your church into your mess, yet you want a pastor who has not had that experience. Is there a double standard here? I am new to this blog...and want you to know I have really enjoyed reading your entries...but this caught me as a little strange...yet i see this a lot...churches looking for and desiring the perfect pastor...would the committee been willing to also print out there credit report for all to see?? Ron

The overarching principle I tried to apply in this situation is transparency.

The Pastor/Congregation relationship best functions (maybe only truly functions) when there is an honest, transparent relationship between the two. As a representative of the church in this search process, I found it absolutely essential that we share exactly where our church stood in regard to finances.

As I’ve indicated, we haven’t handled our church indebtedness well. But once the candidate decides to join us as pastor, he comes alongside of us and shares in our burden. So it doesn’t matter that the indebtedness was entered into 10 years ago before many members of the church (including myself) had even joined the church. What matters is that Lakeview has this debt today. It is our debt. I wanted the candidate to know exactly where we stood so that he would have the opportunity to stand with us. Or not. I certainly would’ve understood if any candidate had said to us “You know, I don’t see this church prospering under that level of debt. Good luck finding your next pastor.” Your own experience of dealing with a church not paying you your full salary illustrates the importance of full disclosure.

But I think the same process of transparency works in the other direction. There some good reasons for checking out the credit history of a potential candidate.

First, I think that the Search Committee needs to do due diligence to make sure that the candidate complies with the biblical qualifications for the office of pastor. I see this as part of the command to make sure that the pastor runs his own household well. If he’s had some financial concerns in the past I would like to make sure that he’s addressed them going forward.

Second, financial stress always leads to personal stress. And personal stress affects ministry. Too much indebtedness will affect his ability to minister to the church. We need to be aware of this from the beginning.


Third, I think that there is a moral dimension to failing to repay debts. If we have a candidate who has not paid what he promised to pay, it raises some issues of character. Obviously there are circumstances beyond an individual’s control, but generally speaking one should pay their debts.

Last, on a personal note, I would expect that a church would do the same thing to me. At this moment I am discussing an intentional interim process with a church and I will request that they do a background check and a credit check on me to model for them how the process should work.

You raise a final issue about how widely this information should be disseminated. I can't imagine any circumstance in which the congregation as a whole would need to have this information. I don’t think it is necessary for even all of the search committee to be made aware of this credit history. I do think that the number of those who know should be more than one person, so that there is some corroboration when the report is made to the committee. In our case, we established a subcommittee of two PSC members to run the credit check (in the presence of the candidate). We then reported to the committee something like “His credit history and total indebtedness is fine.” We then gave all of the financial (and background check) information to the candidate. We kept no record of it and honestly, three months later, I can’t today tell you any of the numbers from his report.

Ron, one question you didn’t ask (and that I haven’t addressed) is how much bad credit and/or debt is too much. I have no idea. We didn't request a credit score, we just looked at his total indebtedness. Some questions: Will the amount of his debt require him to get a second job? Will he need extraordinary compensation to service his debt? Does he have a bankruptcy in his credit history? None of these are deal breakers in my mind, but I would like to know how he’s addressed the underlying issues behind the indebtedness. As Larry Burkett used to say, financial issues aren’t the problem, they are always the symptom of other problems.

Ron, once a gain thanks for your comment. And above all, thank you for your service to God's kingdom.

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Background Checks and an Inside Candidate

We had to take care of two other housekeeping issues regarding the search. First, we had to conduct a background check and a credit check on Brother Rick. The same weekend as the theological interview, we got two members of the committee (myself and a member who also chaired the personnel committee) to conduct both checks and to report back to the rest of the committee. We went to http://www.securesearchpro.com/ and for a very reasonable $12.00 price got a criminal background check that covered all 50 states. (He was clean). When he was in town for his theological interview, we had him go to http://www.annualcreditreport.com/ and get a free credit report. Our purpose in generating this report was to verify that his indebtedness wasn’t too substantial. Once again he was clean.

Our second task was a bit more substantial. We had an inside candidate for the position of pastor. Our youth minister had assumed a great number of responsibilities in the absence of a pastor. In fact, he was the only full-time minister remaining on staff. He assumed preaching responsibilities for several months while the church got an interim and he blossomed in that role. He also began doing hospital visits and performing funerals and weddings and did a great job in all of these areas. A few months into the process he asked me if he could submit his name as a candidate for the position. He said “How convinced do I need to be that God is calling me to be pastor before I submit my name?” I told him that I thought he only needed to be confident (and obedient) enough that God wanted him to submit his name, not necessarily convinced that he was called to become the next pastor.

After considering his candidacy, the committee was unanimous that he was not going to be the next pastor. At this time we were also reaching the end of the interview process with brother Rick. So another committee member and I took our youth pastor out to breakfast and shared with him the committee’s decision. Part of the difficulty of our task is that we wanted to be straightforward with him as to some concerns that the committee had about him in the role of pastor, while still affirming the exceptional job he was doing during the interim. He was very receptive to our concerns and took the news well. He also shared that the fact he would not be the next pastor would make his wife extremely happy! He pledged to work hard alongside the new pastor. As we shared with him about brother Rick, he grew even more excited. Although I had some initial concerns about how the meeting would go, it turned out wonderfully.

As a post-script, the church has recently changed the job title of the youth minister to that of administration/associate pastor. He now works hand in hand with the new pastor and is doing an outstanding job.

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The Theological Interview (II)

As we concluded our theological interview, we only had one reservation. A few on the committee had only seen him preach on one occasion. One of the committee members mentioned the fact that she would like to hear him preach again. He told her that he had preached three times for the committee (a neutral site, once in our home town, and once at his church) and that it was enough. If we asked him to preach for us again, he was going to withdraw from the search. Although this led to some frustration on the part of the committee (including myself) in retrospect his approach seemed to be reasonable, and geared to protecting his current congregation from another absence from the pulpit.

At the end of the meeting, I asked Rick if he had any final questions for us. He asked a few about our weaknesses and then ended the interview with the following line. “You have asked me a lot of questions and I have answered to the best of my ability. I imagine that you could find someone else who could answer these questions better than I could. I know that you could find someone with more experience than I have. But you won’t find anyone who will love this church more than I will. All I have to offer you is my heart. That’s what I have to offer this church: my heart.” When he finished these words, several of the committee members teared up.

Following the extensive theological interview, I walked Brother Rick out to his car. I slipped him a copy of our church directory with names of the regular attenders highlighted. When I returned to the rest of the committee, they were chatting excitedly. In short, the interview went well. It wasn’t that Rick had answered all the questions “correctly” (By correct I suppose a PSC means “Simply agreeing with us”). On a few occasions he mentioned the he didn't know the answer to a question. But more than his theological fidelity, the committee was impressed by his honesty and his transparency. One committee member summed up the feelings for several when he said “I feel like in the eight hours I spent today with him that I know him better than I got to know our previous pastor in the last thirteen years.”

Although several of the committee wanted to vote on the spot, I was concerned about acting due to the emotion of the moment. I suggested that we wait a week before voting. But over the next few days, as I spoke with various committee members, I began to realize that every member of the committee was in favor of voting early on Wednesday. So on Wednesday we decided to vote on calling him as pastor. The committee was unanimous, including the alternate. We immediately called Brother Rick and let him know the exciting news. He was excited as well.

After we hung up the speaker phone and were filing out of the conference room, one committee member told me in passing: I wonder if these next two weeks will be the hardest part of the process? I assured her that the most difficult part of the search was behind us.

Boy was I wrong!

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To the Four Winds...

Life has (yet again) accelerated around our household. For the first time in thirteen years, each of our kids is in school. Scooter occupies the Alpha position in middle school as an eighth-grader, the queen of all she surveys. Peasant sixth graders cower in her presence. Skeeter is in the same position as a fifth grader in elementary school, at the pinnacle of the heap. At the other end of the food chain is Squealer, a small kindergartener who is still adjusting to this new (and exhilarating) world outside our household.

Having three kids at three different schools has stretched our meager planning and scheduling skills to the breaking point. Mornings begin early and race by. Scooter heads to the front yard at 6:59 am for her 7:00 bus stop. (Yes, I’m mostly over my first impression from a couple of years ago). After much prayer and anguish, we decided to let Squealer ride the bus. This concerned us, because with his diminutive size (and his giftedness in bothering people) we were concerned about him being tossed out one of the bus windows. But after an extended phone conversation with the bus driver (and the reality of his school being some distance from our home) we decided to give it a shot. He too must be at a bus stop for a 7:00 am pick up, about a mile from our house. Skeeter leaves the house at 7:30 via bike. Her school is .9 miles from our home and you must be 1 mile away to ride the bus. So despite the fact that she must cross a pretty major thoroughfare, we decided to take the plunge and let her ride. She loves the responsibility and freedom that a bike gives her.

So every morning, our three kids are scattered to the four winds. A bike, two buses and a multitude of prayers fan out across our community every morning. And we are reminded again that they are in His hands.

Exactly where they've been all along.

Pastor Search Committee Questions

I will include here the pool of questions we prepared for Brother Rick. Some of these we devised, but most came from various other resources. Again, we asked about 70 of these, but in the course of the interview, Rick touched on answers to each of them. Also some of them we ended up not asking because we simply hit the high points of the Baptist Faith and Message and asked “Where do you agree and disagree?”

Our main goal was to be thorough on hitting the primary points. Certainly we may have gone overboard (as DD questions here). I think the main thing we wanted was to be able to answer anyone in the church who might ask us a question “Did you ask him about…..? or “What does Brother Rick think about …?”

Anyway, here’s the list. I would appreciate comments on other questions we might have asked, or (from our pastors out there) what are some of the stranger questions that you’ve been asked?

PASTORAL MINISTRY QUESTIONS

Ministry Experience

1. What have you learned in the congregation you now serve that will make you a better pastor?

2. Describe your weaknesses and your strengths.

3. Describe a ministry experience with the congregation you now serve that captures your greatest strengths.

4. Outside of normal vacation time, how many weeks per year do you like to be away from church doing ministry (revivals, missions, conferences, etc.) and study?

Philosophy of Ministry
5. What attracts you to Lakeview Baptist Church? How long would you like to stay at this church?

6. Describe your leadership style. To what extent are you self-directed in your ministry responsibilities?

7. Describe the mission of your present congregation. In what ways has your ministry influenced this mission?

Worship Leader
8. Describe a typical worship service for which you plan to lead. Do you use an order of service?

9. How do you balance worship so it addresses the needs of different age groups?

10. Have you felt the Holy Spirit leading you to change the service in any way once it has begun and how did you handle that?

Pastoral Care and Counseling
11. Recently, sexual misconduct and internet pornography within the church has become a more visible issue. What safe guards have you initiated to protect yourself and the church from such misconduct?

12. How do you view your role in visiting members and church guests (visitors)?

13. Do you have any restrictions on the performance of marriages? Describe your approach to marriage counseling.

14. What is your counseling philosophy?

15. Do you consider yourself a counselor? What type of counseling do you perform?

16. How do you equip church members to provide care to other congregational members?

17. Give us an example of a typical week of pastoral care activities.

18. As pastor you must be a leader and Lakeview Baptist Church has a history of following the pastor. How will you lead by example in the ministries of Lakeview Baptist Church?

Missions and Evangelism
19. What role does evangelism plan in your current church? (Worship, activites, etc.) Do you view some activities or services being more focused on evangelism than others? Which ones?

20. Some people believe a church can become too big. Others feel that every church should become as large as possible. What’s your view?

21. Compare and contrast outreach vs. soul winning.

22. What is your heart with regards to missions?

Staff Relationships
23. What accountability would be expected among staff members?

24. How comfortable are you in providing direction to staff members?

25. Who should be included in staff meetings?

26. How would you respond to other staff members who in your opinion are doing a poor job?

27. Describe how your management or leadership style affects your relationship with other church staff members?

28. When it comes to support staff, what is your policy with regards to church membership?

29. How do you relate to committees in your church?

Community Relations
30. What responsibility do you feel the church has to respond to the social problems affecting our community?

31. How do church politics on a local, state, regional, and national level figure into your ministry and time?

Personal
32. What motivates you as a pastor?

33. How do you cope with stress?

34. What spiritual disciplines guide your life?

35. Tell us about your devotional life.

36. Have you ever had a crisis of faith? And, if so, how did you work through it? What was learned?

Education
37. What skills do you bring to this position that you believe will serve you and the church well? How did you obtain these skills? How do you apply these skills to your work?

38. What are your intentions as far as continuing your education?

Congregation Life
39. What changes may be in store for our congregation if you become our pastor?

40. Describe your operational strategy during the first 6 months of a church. (How do you set goals, prioritize plans, define and evaluate success?)

41. What church structure do you view as best in helping a congregation to achieve its mission?

42. How have you approached the issues of finance and stewardship with your present congregation?

43. As pastor of a church, you have tremendous influence with that congregation. In your own words, could you explain or describe what that influence is?

44. How would you be willing to handle accountability from the congregation and do you have accountability partners that you meet with regularly? Who are they?

45. Coming from a much smaller congregation, how will you involve the body to help you meet its needs?

Preaching
46. Describe your routine process of preparing sermons.

47. Are there any topics you feel uncomfortable preaching about, such as finances or current moral issues?

48. How much time to you devote to sermon preparation?

49. How do you select sermon topics? Would you consider yourself a topical or exegetical preacher?

Christian Education
50. What is your role in Christian education?

51. What Bible study curriculum do you currently use for the different age groups within your church? How do you determine which to use?

52. What educational programs, other than Sunday School, do you emphasize?

Administration
53. What is the primary role of the deacon body? What responsibilities, priorities or boundaries should be the deacon body have in defining our church ministry?

54. What accountability should exist between the deacon body and the pastoral staff members?

55. Do you have a job description now? What parts of it do you feel confident about performing, and with what parts of it do you feel uncomfortable?

56. In what capacity do you work with committees, deacons, or church leadership and what role will they play in overall church decisions like personnel, vision, finances, and outreach?

Family Life
57. What things would you like the church to do to provide support to your family?

58. If you were to move here, what type of housing would you be looking for?

Questions about our Church
59. What do you see that you like about Lakeview Baptist Church?

60. Are there any concerns about which we have not asked, which might be of a sensitive nature for you or Lakeview Baptist Church?

61. Do you have questions about this position that have not been answered?

THEOLOGICAL QUESTIONS
1. Describe the importance of Scripture.

2. Explain the biblical term “baptism of the Spirit.” When does this baptism occur?

3. What are your views on baptism by water?

4. Views on Calvinism?
a. How does the Bible relate the sovereignty of God to salvation?
b. What does the Bible teach about the extent of man’s depravity?
c. What does Christ’s atonement accomplish?
d. What does the Bible teach about the perseverance and preservation of believers?

5. What is the proper use of the Old Testament Law?

6. What is the relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament?

7. How would you explain the Trinity? Why is it important?

8. What is your view of end-time or eschatological issues?

9. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin? What is the significance of your belief?

10. What is your interpretation of the biblical teaching on Hell?

11. What does the Bible teach concerning spiritual gifts? Please delineate your views about prophecy and speaking in tongues.

12. What is your view of divorce and remarriage? How strictly will you follow this view in practice?

13. What is your view of the phrase, “The bishop [pastor] then must be…the husband of one wife” (1 Tim. 3:2)?

14. Please explain your views on church discipline.

15. Many children who appear to be converted at an early age show no evidence of knowing Christ later. How do you handle children when they come to you for counsel concerning conversion? What is your advice to parents?

16. What is a useful plan for receiving new members into the church? What are prerequisites?

17. What are your views on styles of church music?

18. Who should direct the worship of the church? Why? Which methods of leading corporate worship are appropriate? Which are inappropriate?

19. What are your views regarding raising money for various projects within the church? Should the church solicit those outside the church?

20. What are your convictions about the local church and debt?

21. What does the Bible teach about women in ministry?

22. What does the Bible teach about how churches should make decisions?

23. How should a pastor and his church relate to other churches locally and to the larger Southern Baptist body? Do you feel comfortable cooperating with other denominations? Do you draw any lines?

24. What are the biblical responsibilities of elders? Are there any distinctions between elders, pastors, and overseers? If applicable, what distinctions exist between staff and non-staff pastors?

25. What are the biblical responsibilities of deacons? How are deacons and elders to relate?

26. What emphasis do you give to the leadership of fathers with their families, especially in terms of family worship? Do you personally engage in family worship with your wife and children?

27. Are you familiar with the term “missional”? What does it mean?

28. How do you see a difference between being a church planter and a pastor?

29. What does the Bible say about homosexual behavior? Can one be a Christian and a homosexual?

30. What version of the Bible do you preach from?

31. What is your view of the use of the altar for prayer during the worship service?

32. To what degree, if any, do you differ with the historical doctrinal positions of this church?

33. Describe several ethical principles that guide your work.

34. What special services do you conduct throughout the year?

35. What is the purpose of the Lord’s supper? Do you believe it should be open or closed, and how often should it be practiced?

36. Do you believe that there should still be revival meetings? How often?

37. Describe a personal experience that has significantly shaped your own theology.

38. What are your views on the following:
a. God
b. Baptism
c. Jesus
d. Salvation
e. The Holy Spirit
f. The Church
g. The Bible
h. Stewardship

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Partial Bovine Missiles...

Several years ago, we received a Leapfrog Fridge Magnetic Farm Animal set. This toy/learning device sticks to your refrigerator and is accompanied by several farm animals which also stick to your fridge. You put both halves of the animals in the barn and mash them and they moo, cluck, oink or whatever. Or you can switch a button and mash them and then they spell the name of the animal. Due to the incredible power of inertia (consistently the most powerful force in our household), this rural structure has remained on our refrigerator for years, even though Squealer has left toddlerhood far behind. Squealer had generally forgotten about them….until a few days ago. I was in the living room and I began to hear some pretty intense wailing coming from the kitchen.

Skeeter: “Waaah!”

I ran into the room where Skeeter wailed while Squealer looked around somewhat disinterestedly. “What happened here?”

Skeeter: “Squealer threw a cow at me! Waah!!!”

Squealer: “No I didn’t! She’s lying.”

Skeeter: Stopped crying, in shock and her little brother’s cool prevarication. “Yes you did, you hit me with that cow right there.” She pointed by the dishwasher and guiltily resting there was the purple butt end of the cow magnet.

Squealer, shaking his head insistently: “I didn’t hit you with the cow, I hit you with a part of the cow.”

I said “Squealer is that true, did you hit her with the cow—I mean part of the cow” I added when I saw him beginning to object.

“Yes sir.”

“Do we throw things?”

“No sir, but it was just a part of the cow.”

I struggled for a moment before amending my next question “Do we throw parts of cows?”

“No sir.”

“You still need to apologize to your sister.”

“Skeeter, I’m sorry I hit you in the face with a part of the cow” he gently said.

She sniffled patiently and replied “I forgive you Squealer, for hitting me in the face with a part of a cow.”

Book Review: Wild Goose Chase

I’ve never heard of Mark Batterson. He’s the lead pastor of Washington, DC’s National Community Church an innovative church that has a lot of Washington movers and shakers in its membership. NCC meets in movie theaters at metro stops throughout the city, as well as in a church-owned coffee house near Union Station. More than seventy percent of NCC’ers are single twentysomethings who live or work on Capitol Hill. Mark is the author of the best-selling book In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day.

In the sequel to that book, Wild Goose Chase: Reclaim the Adventure of Pursuing God, Batterson develops the idea that there is an unpredictability to the movement and actions of God. The title of the book comes from the fact that among Celtic Christians, they often referred to the Holy Spirit as An Geadh-Glas or, the Wild Goose. He says that “Much like a wild goose, the Spirit of God cannot be tracked or tamed. An element of danger, an air of unpredictability surrounds Him.”

Batterson explores the barriers that prevent us from accepting God’s unpredictability in six areas, which he calls cages and explores in individual chapters. First, is the cage of responsibilities. He argues that our passions are often submerged beneath our day to day responsibilities. Second is the cage of the routine, being shackled by comfort and predictability. Third is the cage of assumptions (I’m too old, too young, too inexperienced, too set in my ways) where we assume that God cannot use us. The fourth cage is the cage of guilt in which we assume that God cannot use us because of past actions and choices. The fifth cage is the cage of failure, where we believe that we cannot overcome the mistakes of our past. The final cage is the cage of fear, being terrified of taking a step of faith.

I think this focus on the elusive presence of God is exactly right. So much of contemporary Evangelicalism consists in putting God into a particular box that is neat and orderly. But the Spirit blows where it will, and as believers we’d best stop pretending otherwise. As Lucy was told when she first entered Narnia “Aslan isn’t a tame lion!”

I will add that I think the association of the Holy Spirit as a Wild Goose is pretty weak. A wild goose chase is a metaphor for chasing something insubstantial, not the best description of God (a point he acknowledges). But look past the title of the book and you will find encouragement to allow God to move you in directions you might not have otherwise sought. I recommend this book.

I also have one free copy! Since Batterson pastors in D.C. and we are in an election season let’s make this a presidential question. One of my prized possessions is a autobiography of one of our presidents, with his autograph inscribed inside. His 100th birthday would’ve been celebrated this week. Who is he? Post it here and I’ll send you a copy of this book.

Overheard During Obama's Acceptance Speech

(The kids aren't really into politics, but because it is a memorable speech, I encouraged them to stay up and listen to Obama's acceptance speech).

Obama: "the same party that brought you two terms of George Bush and Dick Cheney will ask this country for a third. And we are here because we love this country too much to let the next four years look like the last eight. On November 4th, we must stand up and say: "Eight is enough."

Scooter: "Oooooo?! Did you hear what he said about President Bush?"

Skeeter: "Was that a slam?"

Scooter: "Uhhhh...yeah"

Skeeter: "Well, I hope the President wasn't watching."

The Theological Interview (I)

Following our visit to his church, we contacted Brother Rick about a theological interview. While we had of course, discussed theology throughout the search process, we had not made it the central topic of any one interview with him. Certainly we would not have reached this stage of the process if there had been any theological red flags. We also had some loose ends that we needed to cover. For instance, we needed to lay out Lakeview’s financial situation and let him know the level of our indebtedness. We also felt it necessary to give him an honest appraisal of the staff situation I mentioned a few posts ago. In addition, we had not yet conducted a criminal background check or a credit check. (Which we accomplished by appointing two members of our committee to pull these reports, with his consent.)

So we decided to bring him into our town on a Friday and conduct the extended interview on Saturday. That Friday evening quickly arrived and Jim (as a PSC member and Personnel Chairman) and I had a working dinner with Rick where we went over the finances of the church as well as our personnel concerns. Rick asked numerous questions and also shared with us how he had addressed difficult circumstances with staff and financial challenges in previous places of ministry.

Some on the committee had been greatly concerned about “scaring off” a candidate when we revealed the level of church debt. But others felt that when the right candidate came along, he would be unconcerned. Rick’s reaction was neither one of surprise or concern. He simply accepted it and discussed how it had been addressed in the past. He also shared some wise advice on the personnel matter.

The following day we began at 8:00 am and interrogated interviewed Rick until around 5 that evening, stopping briefly for lunch. We had close to a hundred questions or so (I’ll include them in a separate post). The previous week we divided them up and so we went into the interview with a particular game plan. Because Rick is pretty talkative, particularly when a bit nervous, I tried to keep the session moving along. Of the one hundred questions, we probably asked seventy. The rest of the questions he covered in other answers. It was a long day, but a good day. By the end of the day, no question of the committee remained unasked and we were all exhausted.

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Visiting His Home Church (II)

Rick’s wife Elizabeth continued her question and said “If things go well and we are called to Lakeview…will Rick be thrown to the wolves?” I wasn’t sure what generated this question, beyond something that may have happened in a previous place of ministry. We tried to answer as best we could, essentially pledging that the leadership of the church represented on the committee would support the next pastor of Lakeview. She asked several follow up questions that focused on issues of family general quality of life. Overall she was honest with her concerns about what the new challenges of the ministry might be.

We continued our conversation for several hours. Jim, the former alternate who came with me, agreed with the rest of the committee that brother Rick might be the guy. I told the committee later that the effect was very much like those zombie movies. Every person who met him, came back to the group liking him.

We also came to a significant decision. We needed to have another meeting with Rick and the entire committee that would focus on his theological views.

But I was bothered by our answer to Elizabeth’s question. I was afraid that I made it sound like there were no wolves in Lakeview. So after a few days went by, I sent them the following email.

Dear Brother Rick and Elizabeth,

Let me again thank you for your questions. As a committee, one of our goals throughout this process has been for us to provide as much transparency as we know how to give. So I appreciate very much the fact that you both have been equally transparent and open in your dialogue with us. Please don’t hesitate to ask us anything, even the difficult questions.

Elizabeth, you asked a great question about the possibility of Rick being “thrown to the wolves” at Lakeview. After thinking about your question last night and today, I wanted to add a few things to our conversation. As your question recognizes, and as you know from experience, there are many wolves in the world of ministry. Some come from within the church, and some come from without.

Part of the role of the pastor (as I see it anyway) is to protect the congregation from wolves. But a major part of the leadership of the congregation is to protect the pastor from wolves as well. I think that there is a strong core of leadership in the church, centered in the deacons. Several of the strong leaders on this committee are each deacons, and should give you some sense of the quality of the other deacons as well. They will strongly support our new pastor.

In addition, I am excited about the role that Bob [a PSC member] will play as our Personnel Committee chairman. He is going to be in close contact with all of the staff about what the church expects of them in their roles as ministers. If there are any personnel issues that need to be resolved, they will be resolved by the pastor. If he is unable to resolve these issues, then the personnel committee will step up and assist him

Elizabeth, if God sees fit to provide you and Rick with a place of ministry at Lakeview, I am (sadly) certain that you will each encounter wolves over the years. I cannot promise you that our city is wolf free, but I can promise you that as a committee and as leaders in the church, we will support you in fighting those wolves the best of our God-given ability. You won’t be alone. Through God’s strength, you have each defeated your share of wolves at your current church, and I am certain that if God is in this move to Lakeview, you will do the same here.

Taran

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3 Kid Book Reviews

Now for something completely different. I was asked to review three children's books. They are aimed at the toddler years, so its approximately equivalent to my maturity level. But in order to be objective, I figured that I would just read these with Squealer, and then report on his reactions. But he didn't really like any of them, so I'm somewhat at a loss. I think his five year old self is moving beyond toddler interests.

Of the three, God Gave us Heaven is the best. It narrates the wintery world of Little Cub. Little Cub awakens one morning with some important questions on her mind: What is heaven like? How do we get there? Will we eat in heaven? Will we be angels? During a cold day spent wandering their arctic world, Papa gently answers each question, assuring Little Cub that heaven is a wonderful place, "a million times better" than she can imagine. He explains how God has made a way for those who love him to enter their heavenly home forever after their lives on earth are over.

I think the best thing about this book is that it generated a great conversation between Kadie and Squealer when she read it to him. She mentioned that she will see her mom when she gets to heaven and (for the first time), Squealer inquired about his grandmother, whom we lost almost twenty years ago.

In When God Made My Toes, kids are drawn into the wonder of their creation by God. Their masterful artist who fashioned them just right for amazing and delightful adventures, such as roller skating, finger-painting, doing flips, and drinking cocoa. Imaginative rhymes and I did like the connection between the fact that we are a unique part of God's Creation. It nicely brings the idea that the same God who created the natural world, took time and effort to create us as well.

In God Loves Me More Than That, children learn that God loves them deeper than a wishing well, wider than a semi-truck, louder than thunder, and softer than a kitten's sneeze. Each question, presented with charming child-like faith will help young ones grasp the great love of God through comparisons and descriptions they can easily understand. In short, they'll discover that His love is bigger, wider, higher, and deeper than anything they could imagine! This one was our least favorite of the three.

Visiting His Home Church

After David’s resignation, we paused to consider where we were in the process. While we very much liked the candidate (let’s call him Rick) under discussion, we had not yet visited his church. Since I had seen him only once, and the alternate committee member (now a regular member) had not seen him at all, we decided that the two of us would go to visit pastor Rick’s church.

We told brother Rick the Sunday we would be arriving and got there a few minutes before the worship service. As per our custom, my partner went in first while I remained in the car. After a few minutes I went in and sat in another part of the sanctuary. When Rick arrived at the church a few years ago, there were three people present his first Sunday. Attendance had risen to in the fifties, although the Sunday we arrived there were in the forties. We were confused at first because the state WMU president was present and gave a report, followed by a NAMB resort missionary who gave a report on their work at an area lake.

An odd moment occurred after brother Rick began preaching because the WMU president stood up and said loudly (and I might add, somewhat proudly) “Brother Rick, I forgot to mention during my report that the WMU raised $2 million for Lottie Moon this last Christmas!!!” If Rick was aggravated at being interrupted, he didn’t let it show. He simply paused a moment and then said “Well I have no idea who this Lottie Moon lady is, but she certainly is rolling in the dough.”

Following the service, my partner and I hurriedly departed and quickly went out into my car to leave. As we stated pulling out of the parking lot, I kid you not, the WMU president came streaking out of the church, racing toward us holding aloft two bags full of WMU swag that she wanted everyone in the service to receive. I briefly considered flooring it, but didn’t want to create a larger scene. So I slowed down and rolled down my window as the older (and surprisingly spry) state WMU president breathlessly gave us our bags of samples.


We then drove down to the Presbyterian church and waited for pastor Rick to call us. He did several minutes later and I asked him where we could take he and his family out to eat. After consulting with his family, he said “Y’know, we could really use some McDonald’s right about now.” (When I turned in the meal receipts later to our Finance Chairman, I made sure he understood that Mickey D’s was the candidate’s idea.)

After getting the meal, we took it back to their parsonage and had a conversation that ran another 5 hours or so. It was a good conversation and only served to reinforce the strong feelings that the committee and the candidate were developing for one another.


Late in the evening, after we had talked a great deal, Rick’s wonderful wife started off a question with the following statement. “I may get my husband in trouble, but there’s a question that I just have to ask…” She then paused for a moment as she put the right words together.

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Resignation Aftermath

When I shared the news of David’s resignation to the committee, there was some anger. Mostly the anger was directed at the individual who was involved in the conflict with David’s wife. But there was also some frustration at the Personnel Committee. As I stated in my last post, the committee system at Lakeview had lain dormant for so long, that I don’t think that they were responsible for mishandling this situation.

Most of the Pastor Search Committee had no idea that this conflict had been ongoing. They were surprised and felt that we should monitor the situation. One result of this event is that it gave us as a committee an opportunity to discuss and understand that we had some personnel issues that needed to be addressed in the church. Shortly after these events came out our Personnel Committee chairman resigned (for unrelated reasons) and a member of the Search Committee was appointed chair of the Personnel Committee and began to deal effectively with these concerns. He gave periodic updates to the PSC and helped to address the concerns of the rest of the committee.

Letting the church know was a more difficult matter. I sought advice from various people to figure out how to best communicate that David had resigned. One advisor suggested that I simply not say anything and that people would only find out later. But I wanted to try to model communication to the church and felt that simply not telling them would be disingenuous. Some on the committee felt that we should announce it to the church during the next PSC report, four weeks away. My concern with this approach was the inordinate the length of time until our next report to the church. Honestly, one of the hardest thing for me to imagine was that people were praying for the entire committee by name every week and I felt that they should know what was going on. Plus I thought that Sunday morning was a pretty big stage and I wasn’t sure that it was the best setting for this announcement.

So we decided to announce the resignation during a business meeting. Since very few people outside the PSC and the Personnel Committee knew of the staff conflict, I was general about why David resigned. I simply said that he had resigned for personal concerns and he asked that I not disclose the reason. I assured the congregation that I wished David had not resigned and that he was not resigning because of any moral issue. I then asked if there were any questions.

Fortunately, there were none.

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David's Resignation

David’s wife had served for a period of time as the children’s minister at Lakeview Baptist. During that time she suffered the bumps and bruises that often accompany any ministry endeavor. But she also had a pretty high level conflict with one of our church secretaries. Feelings were hurt, and things were said on both sides that were unfortunate. On numerous occasions they clashed.

Finally, and as a direct result of these conflicts, David’s wife quit the church staff. David, understandably, thought that his wife had been tremendously wronged in this process. Contributing to his case was the fact that this secretary had also been involved in conflicts with previous staff members as well.

After years of ineffectiveness, the Personnel Committee had begun the process of addressing this situation, but not in a way that David approved. Essentially, David demanded that the secretary be terminated from her position immediately or they would leave. The Personnel Committee was taking a careful approach to the situation and was not moving as quickly as David would’ve liked. In addition, as he told me, his wife could no longer worship with “that woman” at Lakeview. As a result of these factors, David told me that they were gone. They haven’t been back since, although our families still socialize together. David told me later that one reason he stepped down from the committee is because he would’ve voted against the new pastor simply because this issue had not yet been dealt with (to his satisfaction). Since we were committed to a unanimous recommendation to the church, David would’ve effectively sabotaged the search process. So when David shared with me that God told him to resign from the committee, I didn’t disagree.

David's resignation presented two challenges to our committee. First, we had to assess what David’s departure meant to us as a committee. He was active in our discussions and brought successful business acumen into our conversations. Second, we had to address what would be the consequences of his departure when we announced it to the church. How could they trust a committee that couldn't even keep its own membership together?

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"Find the Door!!"

For those of you who are Dallas Cowboys fans and are (like me) far too cheap to subscribe to HBO, well God has smiled upon you and rewarded your faithfulness. The first episode of their Training Camp series Hard Knocks is available for free viewing here. Enjoy!

(Please finish your sermon before viewing.)

A Fine Second Meeting and Shocking News

Following our initial visit with the pastoral candidate, we quickly decided that the rest of the committee needed to meet him. We scheduled a Wednesday night service at a local church and asked him and his family to come. We also planned a post-service meal/discussion time where the rest of the committee could get to know him. When that Wednesday rolled around, the half the committee was excited about seeing him again, particularly those who had not yet met him.

But I wasn't there. I got sick that morning. Very sick. The kind of sick where your prayers change from desiring God's healing to desiring God's quick and fatal intervention. I was so sick I took more leave time that week than my previous six years combined. I was so sick…..but I digress.

The rest of the committee enjoyed the service immensely. There was some concern after his initial sermon that he read his notes too closely during the sermon, but those concerns were alleviated and chalked up to nerves. Following the service, they ate dinner with him and his family for several hours. Then after the candidate and his family left, the committee continued to meet and discuss the evening. All were pleased with how the evening went. As the senior member of the committee put it "He just seems too good to be true."

As committee chairman, I Was very pleased. Things seemed to be progressing nicely. We were several months into the process and for the first time, God had our minds and hearts set on a candidate whose personality seemed like a nice fit with our congregation. It was in the midst of this time of goodwill that I received news that sent shock waves through the entire search process.

I got a call from one of our committee members. David was one of my closest friends at church and our family often vacationed with his. He and his family joined Lakeview about two years before, but he quickly took on responsibilities and handled them extremely well, including getting the entire church to change Sunday School curricula. No small task!!

When I saw his name on my cell phone at work one afternoon, I answered with a casual "Hey David, what's up?" His voice was grave and measured. "Taran, I've decided that I can no longer be a part of the search process, or a part of this church. I'm resigning from the committee immediately and my family and I are never coming back."

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The Healing Choice Blog Review

How do you survive marital infidelity? How does a woman rebuild trust in her husband after he’s confessed some emotional and physical affairs, and lied about others?

Is there a way forward?

The Healing Choice: How to Move Beyond Betrayal by Brenda Stoeker and Susan Allen address these questions and many others. It is a very personal book, divided in half as each of these women tell their stories. They offer the reader a detailed prescription for dealing with these issues. First, realize that God is present even during the darkest days of our lives and second, there is a community of women who have had similar (and even identical) experiences and have survived these problems.

Stoeker and Allen each draw upon their own experiences with these issues and offer step-by-step advice for rediscovering intimacy with God and finding the support you need to move toward genuine spiritual and emotional restoration.

Strengths:

It’s a book written by and for women, particularly women who have experienced tremendous emotional pain. The stories told are told from a woman’s perspective. It makes for an unusual (though not unhelpful) read for a man.

It does provide helpful spiritual advice for women that includes a strong dose of community as well.

Weaknesses:
Most obviously is that men will not feel addressed in the book. (But, we've got enough alternate choices). I’m uncertain that it is much of a weakness, but simply a decision made by the authors to narrow their focus to a particular target market.

Overall, I think the strongest feature of the book is that it let’s hurting women know that they are not alone and offers a prescription of both Christ and community.

I have two copies of the book and one group study guide that goes along with it. Rather than having a contest on this one, I’d rather pass them along to people who need them. If you or someone you know would benefit from this book, I’ll send you a copy. Email me at the address listed above.